It’s Game Time: A Panel Discussion with Women of FanDuel

How did you get started in tech?

From non-standard routes to the more traditional, each panellist has undertaken differing (and sometimes unexpected) paths before landing in their current roles — a great example of how diverse the tech industry can and should be.

My own route was not traditional; from a PhD in Literature to an editorial job, I moved into test engineering after a chance opportunity to test some subtitling software, after which I became a Quality Engineer. I eventually moved into my role as Business Analyst after five years in the industry, realising that it was the perfect role in which I could combine the research and analysis skills I had developed in my earlier career with the tech experience I had as a tester.

Lindsay McDermott also had another career in mind when she left school:

I was looking [at a career in] the police force and was advised to go out and get some life experience… I was lucky enough to get a job in an IT support role.

[From there] I could see all the exciting things happening in technology and decided I would like to give it a go… I ended up going back to college for a while to get some more qualifications, but essentially I learned on the job! I moved into various development roles, from a junior developer to a senior developer by the time I was 20. Most of that was through perseverance on my side! About ten years ago, I moved from a development role into management.

Others, it seems, were destined to work in tech!

Liz Mackie had what she describes as a “really typical” path into software engineering.

It all started with my dad. My dad is an electronic engineer and I can remember from a very young age building LED Christmas tree decorations. I remember the first time he built a 286 and I was fascinated with this machine… That was me, immediately hooked on wanting to understand more. Every opportunity I had to work with a computer, I did it, because I wanted to find out what it could do, and what I could make it do.

Eventually I went to university to do a computer science course. After that point, straight into the world of software engineering… Computing has evolved [so much] over the years and it’s just been fascinating to keep learning what computers can do and how far we can push technology.

Liz progressed into management roles and now sees her role as an opportunity to pass on her excitement to others.

Something a little different again for Naz Zamani, who was originally a chess player.

At the age of 15, I got to my country’s national team and I thought: okay, that’s the future! But at high school, I was introduced to the concept of programming and it was a whole new world. For me, programming is like building blocks for creating this dream universe. Like you can create whatever you want, once you know programming. So I decided to give up chess and studied Information Technology at uni. I spent a year learning English…and came to Edinburgh.

After that, Naz did some internships and took on some part-time jobs to help establish exactly what she loved. She applied to FanDuel a short time later, where she is now a software engineer!

Talk turns to what kind of advice we might offer someone looking to forge a career in technology.

The panel universally agree on a series of themes:

Aim high. Don’t look at a job spec and think you’re unsuitable because you don’t check all the boxes…Demonstrating your passion and willingness to learn will go a long way — Lou Bates

Lindsay McDermott echoes this by asserting that “anyone can go into technology!”

Systems and processes can be learned if you’ve got the right attitude and the will to learn. Look for opportunities…use your network, use mentors. Set your own path .

“The best thing to do is to get involved,” Naz Zamani says.

Get involved with volunteer work, with a practical project. It might not look like the most significant thing at the time, but it will gain you experience, and recruiters will see that. You’ll gain the confidence to go further.

Bias and how we tackle it

Our chair, Ally, moves the conversation to a very hot topic — gender bias in the technology industry. What does it mean to be a woman in such a male-dominated world? How do we combat the biases we experience? The panel’s answers were as spicy as you’d expect…

I would love to say that I have never experienced any gender bias within the industry, but the hard truth is that I have. It’s not a daily occurrence by any means, but it happens. One particular example I point to during this session was a response from a male colleague regarding my promotion to a senior role: “It’s probably because you’re a woman,” he said. My achievements minimised and the promotion explained away as a “diversity promotion”. This was pretty cutting, and, if I do say so myself, patently incorrect. My personal response was to shrug it off, knowing full well that I had gained my promotion through my own merit, and go on to perform excellently in the role. I felt my best response was to prove him wrong. I was unlikely to change his mind through discourse, but at least I could do so with my actions. I like to think that I did.

My fellow panellist, Liz, has experienced her own version of this conversation.

“Unfortunately I have an interesting story,” Liz says, grimacing.

[Earlier in my career] I was seeking a promotion from software engineer to senior software engineer. My manager decided to inform me about ‘pink’ jobs and ‘blue’ jobs. When he speaks about pink jobs, he meant doing the washing, doing the ironing, looking after the home. Whereas blue jobs involve fixing cars and working on computers, being able to rock climb. Maybe that’s why I wasn’t suitable for a promotion to a senior role.

I would love to say the story had a happy ending where I stood up, took charge, quit and went to a better job…but I was too scared and I was so shocked at what happened that I didn’t know how to react.

Cue gasps and looks of horror across the panel! Liz points out that those who can need to stand up and challenge such overt biases. While it was a painful learning point for Liz, she knows now what it means to advocate for others and help them negotiate their way successfully through such interactions.

It’s not all doom and gloom, though (thank goodness)! Lindsay says she thinks she’s been lucky over the years.

I haven’t felt that I’ve been held back at all, based on the fact I’m female. What I would say is that we’re definitely getting better [when it comes to gender diversity]. When I started out 27 years ago, it was very male-dominated and I’ve slowly seen that reducing. I’m happy to say that within my current team at FanDuel, we have a really good mix in terms of diversity. There’s a focus now — we talk about it, there are policies and we challenge ourselves to question the things we do see. We’re still on a journey; there are still things to be done. We’re recruiting right now and I would love to see more female applicants. So there are still things we can do to encourage people from different backgrounds, because that’s what makes a diverse culture.

As our discussion moves to a close, it’s time to consider the changes in technology that warrant celebration.

Naz says that as times change, so too has her confidence grown and her ability to challenge the biases and issues women face in the industry.

I owe it to so many women. The women who stood up for others…opened doors for everyone. The most significant impact women have had is to prove how meaningless [such] biases are. Today, no-one should be refused or given a job based on gender. I really appreciate coming across those women who gave me that lesson. I have the confidence today to stand up for myself.

Naz makes a great point and leads us to discuss our successes, rather than the limitations we’ve faced. Both Naz and myself look to the fact we took a leap of faith and worked hard to embark on a new or unexpected career path. That an editor and a chess player now work within the engineering function at the same sports tech company demonstrates that a career change can be done, that it’s never too late to reinvent yourself. Naz had to combat some familial pushback after many years of success in her chosen field. I was 30-years-old and had dedicated over a decade of my life to my first career before moving into wildly different terrain. That we’ve done so successfully is something we’re both proud of. As Naz put it so well, “I am where I want to be, and I’m happy!”

Liz considers her greatest success as stemming from her management role and her teaching of others. Liz was there to provide the support and access they needed when a colleague came to her to express a strong desire to make the next step in their career.

Unfortunately, the company I was with at the time didn’t have the greatest learning and development routine so I did a lot of it off the cuff for them. I made this a priority and made sure I mentored this individual.

That individual started as a software testing intern, now they are an established automation test engineer at a large FinTech company. As a manager, Liz says, there is nothing more satisfying than helping people achieve their full potential.

Q. Throughout your careers, have you ever had a mentor? If so, how do you go about getting a mentor? Or if you mentor others, how do you go about finding mentees?

A. The panel discussed the exciting news that FanDuel is not only working on a mentoring program, but we’re also rolling out a graduate intern scheme. I also took the opportunity to give a little shoutout to a fantastic FanDuel mentor — Rebecca Harris, whose positivity, guidance and support has been valued by so many of us!

Q. Referring to an earlier discussion surrounding a feeling of discomfort taking e.g. computer science classes as perhaps the only, or at least amongst a tiny minority, of girls/women — if you could go back, what advice would you give yourself?

A.

Lou: Just do it. You have just as much of a right to be there, you are just as capable… Move outside of your comfort zone, because you’re going to have to do that if you want to progress your career. You have to push yourself .

Lindsay: I’m a mother of two teenage daughters, the eldest of which is in her fifth year of high school now. This resonates with me because she [faced] the exact same thing and she dropped Computing, regardless of the fact she got an A, based on the fact she felt uncomfortable going into a class dominated by boys. Not only as a mother, but as a woman in technology, it highlights that at that grassroots level, we need to get in really early on and influence [girls] so that they know technology is absolutely somewhere that you can go.

Q. Leadership positions perhaps don’t reflect as much diversity as we would like. I wonder if the panel have seen — particularly with reference to recruitment — any good or bad examples of language useage etc. I wonder if there is some bias there, or learnings to make improvements?

A. Lindsay: At FanDuel, we certainly try not to discriminate, so it’s the same job specification regardless of who you are or where you come from. That being said, we definitely don’t see as many female applicants coming through. That suggests to me that we need to find other routes to encourage women to apply for roles. As a woman in management myself, I absolutely agree. It gets tougher as you move further up the chain, for various reasons.

Lindsay reveals that she prioritised certain personal aspects of her life above career advancement and didn’t necessarily seek out more senior roles, so sometimes worries that she hindered herself. But she points to a former manager of hers who is now a CEO of a major bank, who refused to buy into the culture of presenteeism. “It can be done,” she says.

“I agree with everything Lindsay has said,’ Liz adds.

It’s something we as leaders need to be aware of. What we say is what we do. [We need to be aware] that having a chocoblock job description is really off-putting for a lot of women because there is a feeling of expectation there. Trying to balance work life and personal life is something that we do have to conscious of.

Liz notes that FanDuel removed their takeaway, at-home timed interview task as it infringes on personal time, which for primary caregivers, can be an impossibility to achieve. “But people like Lindsay, taking on these leadership roles, are wonderful examples of how we can do this right.”

Q. What would be your one-sentence takeaway for everyone on this session today? What do want people to keep fresh in their minds?

A.

Lindsay: Don’t be afraid — go for it!

Lou: Be bold, take new opportunities!

Liz: Success comes in many forms…don’t be afraid to ask for help!

Naz: To win a race, you have to be in it!

Ally: Don’t compare yourself to others, take inspiration from others!